Comments on: Time as a Commodity http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459 An Emm Emm Oh Blog Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:22:39 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Blizzard announces WoW Premium « pΘtshΘt http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-311887 Blizzard announces WoW Premium « pΘtshΘt Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:23:58 +0000 http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-311887 [...] But it was inspired by a few recent experiences.  There seems to be a renewed hardcore/casual/who-gets-to-access-content discussion floating around on several blogs.  With WoW’s Cataclysm expansion and its likely gear reset looming in the distance, the discussion inevitably turns toward progression and content gates (i.e. in WoW’s case, iLevel of gear at the level cap). [...] [...] But it was inspired by a few recent experiences.  There seems to be a renewed hardcore/casual/who-gets-to-access-content discussion floating around on several blogs.  With WoW’s Cataclysm expansion and its likely gear reset looming in the distance, the discussion inevitably turns toward progression and content gates (i.e. in WoW’s case, iLevel of gear at the level cap). [...]

]]> By: Lost an eighth » Can RMT save the MMO market? http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-289042 Lost an eighth » Can RMT save the MMO market? Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:16:22 +0000 http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-289042 [...] Over at Journey’s with Jaye (its great to see you posting again, BTW), Jaye has yet again gotten on her soapbox about how the grind affects MMO games.  She basically says that a constantly rising level cap in games only serves your shrinking end-game base, and creates a growing schism between the newcomer and the games veterans.  I know I have played a fair amount of Everquest 2, raising a handful of characters up to around the level 35 mark before losing it.  In Everquest 1, my highest level character in the original game ( up to Luclin) was only level 30ish as well.  I tried to join the Nostalgia gulid folks for their tear through the games content, but I just couldn’t keep up and eventually my interest in soloing petered out.  Once this happens, you start to play less and less and the chasm between you and your friends keeps on growing until you just give up.  In FFXI I started with gusto at the launch, reaching level 15 within a few days.  Then forced grouping happened, and being an adult with a full time job while going to school full time decimated my ability to advance.  My brother and friends skyrocketed ahead and I never moved past my 30s.  Same thing happened with Vanguard and the R&H guild. [...] [...] Over at Journey’s with Jaye (its great to see you posting again, BTW), Jaye has yet again gotten on her soapbox about how the grind affects MMO games.  She basically says that a constantly rising level cap in games only serves your shrinking end-game base, and creates a growing schism between the newcomer and the games veterans.  I know I have played a fair amount of Everquest 2, raising a handful of characters up to around the level 35 mark before losing it.  In Everquest 1, my highest level character in the original game ( up to Luclin) was only level 30ish as well.  I tried to join the Nostalgia gulid folks for their tear through the games content, but I just couldn’t keep up and eventually my interest in soloing petered out.  Once this happens, you start to play less and less and the chasm between you and your friends keeps on growing until you just give up.  In FFXI I started with gusto at the launch, reaching level 15 within a few days.  Then forced grouping happened, and being an adult with a full time job while going to school full time decimated my ability to advance.  My brother and friends skyrocketed ahead and I never moved past my 30s.  Same thing happened with Vanguard and the R&H guild. [...]

]]> By: Sente http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-289027 Sente Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:08:58 +0000 http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-289027 I am still surprised that many MMOs seem to prioritize that players should experience the content in the "proper order", even if that causes problems from a social perspective. In my mind encourage people to play with each other (not force) should be a top priority. A few games do a fairly good job here though; Guild Wars has a short leveling experience - gettting to max level is pretty much just the newbie experience. It does not take many hours to get there. However there are some other restrictions in that you do not have fast travel to a location unless you have been there before. Both City of Heroes/Villains and Champions Online have their excellent sidekick systems where the whole team can be level-adjusted to one of the players in the team. All will still get XP etc scaled for their real level. Being a veteran in City of Heroes/Villains the type of issue you mention does not occur; only if people want to play in some areas which are gated have there been problems. I am still surprised that many MMOs seem to prioritize that players should experience the content in the “proper order”, even if that causes problems from a social perspective.

In my mind encourage people to play with each other (not force) should be a top priority.

A few games do a fairly good job here though; Guild Wars has a short leveling experience – gettting to max level is pretty much just the newbie experience. It does not take many hours to get there. However there are some other restrictions in that you do not have fast travel to a location unless you have been there before.

Both City of Heroes/Villains and Champions Online have their excellent sidekick systems where the whole team can be level-adjusted to one of the players in the team. All will still get XP etc scaled for their real level.

Being a veteran in City of Heroes/Villains the type of issue you mention does not occur; only if people want to play in some areas which are gated have there been problems.

]]> By: The journey is half the fun? Maybe? « Gestalt Mind http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-289020 The journey is half the fun? Maybe? « Gestalt Mind Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:26:03 +0000 http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-289020 [...] The journey is half the fun? Maybe? Well, in spite of my intentions, I didn’t get logged on last night.  I had every intention of doing so and desperately wanted to, but it didn’t happen.  I left work later than I had planned which threw my initial timing off.  I ended up getting to the gym about 30 minutes later than I had planned and then ended up having a really good workout where I simply lost track of time.  I didn’t get home until after 9 PM and I still hadn’t had anything to eat yet.  I made a quick sandwich to get my stomach to quit gnawing on my spine and then went to bed.   I am anxious to get online, but I was feeling overly anxious yesterday afternoon and made the mistake to visit the official forums to get my “fix.”  I hate visiting the official forums for any game because they tend to be such a cesspool of whining.  I am honestly always floored by the things people find to gripe about.   I understand her point and where she is coming from, but I have always disagreed with my guild leader when it comes to her stance on the level grind in MMO’s.  She can’t stand it and makes no bones about it.  Me, I think it is an invaluable part of the MMO experience.  Then again, I don’t look at it as a grind so much as a journey.   I see the leveling process as the period of time where you learn the game, learn your class, and learn how to maximize your abilities.    That isn’t her only gripe though.  She hates the fact that a game that is a little bit older shows a fairly strong disadvantage to players new to the game.  This I understand.    I never played City of Heroes so if I am totally off base here, someone please correct me, but didn’t that game have a reverse mentoring system in place?  If you wanted a lower level toon to group with higher level players, you could Sidekick them so that they could join the group?   I don’t know why more games don’t do that.  Have them start at level 1… not because I did and I think that everyone should have to do it too.  I will always be a firm believer that leveling through the game is still the best way to learn your class.  Did anyone ever group in EQ with someone who leveled a toon strictly via Monster Missions?  I remember doing a 69.1 with a cleric who didn’t realize clerics were healing classes.   Anyway, they have the leveling in front of them, but if a group or raid is forming, why not have a reverse mentor system where they can temporarily boost their level to whatever level is required?  They get for the duration of the reverse mentor the equivalent spells and abilities but will take an exp penalty like higher level toons take when mentoring down.   As for what they would do about armor, well, be creative.  Anyone remember “pet kits” from EQ?  Give one of the caster classes the ability to summon temporary armor kits for players that are level appropriate and have middle-of-the-road stats.  They might not be able to tank a VP raid as a reverse-mentored guardian, but they could at least participate.  Then, once the group/raid is over, they can return to their level and go back to questing or whatever they are doing to level up.   There isn’t any perfect solution.  For every Jaye out there who thinks the level grind is an archaic system that needs to go away, there is someone like me who still enjoys it and views it as a valuable part of the gaming process.    Surely there must be some mechanic out there somewhere that could accommodate both schools of thought without isolating or eliminating one or the other. [...] [...] The journey is half the fun? Maybe? Well, in spite of my intentions, I didn’t get logged on last night.  I had every intention of doing so and desperately wanted to, but it didn’t happen.  I left work later than I had planned which threw my initial timing off.  I ended up getting to the gym about 30 minutes later than I had planned and then ended up having a really good workout where I simply lost track of time.  I didn’t get home until after 9 PM and I still hadn’t had anything to eat yet.  I made a quick sandwich to get my stomach to quit gnawing on my spine and then went to bed.   I am anxious to get online, but I was feeling overly anxious yesterday afternoon and made the mistake to visit the official forums to get my “fix.”  I hate visiting the official forums for any game because they tend to be such a cesspool of whining.  I am honestly always floored by the things people find to gripe about.   I understand her point and where she is coming from, but I have always disagreed with my guild leader when it comes to her stance on the level grind in MMO’s.  She can’t stand it and makes no bones about it.  Me, I think it is an invaluable part of the MMO experience.  Then again, I don’t look at it as a grind so much as a journey.   I see the leveling process as the period of time where you learn the game, learn your class, and learn how to maximize your abilities.    That isn’t her only gripe though.  She hates the fact that a game that is a little bit older shows a fairly strong disadvantage to players new to the game.  This I understand.    I never played City of Heroes so if I am totally off base here, someone please correct me, but didn’t that game have a reverse mentoring system in place?  If you wanted a lower level toon to group with higher level players, you could Sidekick them so that they could join the group?   I don’t know why more games don’t do that.  Have them start at level 1… not because I did and I think that everyone should have to do it too.  I will always be a firm believer that leveling through the game is still the best way to learn your class.  Did anyone ever group in EQ with someone who leveled a toon strictly via Monster Missions?  I remember doing a 69.1 with a cleric who didn’t realize clerics were healing classes.   Anyway, they have the leveling in front of them, but if a group or raid is forming, why not have a reverse mentor system where they can temporarily boost their level to whatever level is required?  They get for the duration of the reverse mentor the equivalent spells and abilities but will take an exp penalty like higher level toons take when mentoring down.   As for what they would do about armor, well, be creative.  Anyone remember “pet kits” from EQ?  Give one of the caster classes the ability to summon temporary armor kits for players that are level appropriate and have middle-of-the-road stats.  They might not be able to tank a VP raid as a reverse-mentored guardian, but they could at least participate.  Then, once the group/raid is over, they can return to their level and go back to questing or whatever they are doing to level up.   There isn’t any perfect solution.  For every Jaye out there who thinks the level grind is an archaic system that needs to go away, there is someone like me who still enjoys it and views it as a valuable part of the gaming process.    Surely there must be some mechanic out there somewhere that could accommodate both schools of thought without isolating or eliminating one or the other. [...]

]]> By: West Karana » Daily Blogroll 9/25 – Apocalypse edition http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-288968 West Karana » Daily Blogroll 9/25 – Apocalypse edition Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:09:01 +0000 http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-288968 [...] Jaye from Journeys With is pushing back against the grind. Having to essentially solo for weeks or months upon joining an established game to catch up with max level guildmates has killed many friends’ interest in playing EQ2. With ten more levels coming in February, who could possibly be dedicated enough to go through 89 levels of mostly soloing? It’s an issue for any established game, and I wonder what SOE is planning to help new players bridge the largest level gap of any subscription game. I’m guessing nothing, because there’s one thing that SOE loves more than anything in all its games, and that’s the GRIND. It’s a holy mandate with them. [...] [...] Jaye from Journeys With is pushing back against the grind. Having to essentially solo for weeks or months upon joining an established game to catch up with max level guildmates has killed many friends’ interest in playing EQ2. With ten more levels coming in February, who could possibly be dedicated enough to go through 89 levels of mostly soloing? It’s an issue for any established game, and I wonder what SOE is planning to help new players bridge the largest level gap of any subscription game. I’m guessing nothing, because there’s one thing that SOE loves more than anything in all its games, and that’s the GRIND. It’s a holy mandate with them. [...]

]]> By: Andrew http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-288826 Andrew Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:42:17 +0000 http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-288826 This is one of the reasons that I've grown to really appreciate skill-based games. The leveling mechanic is clumsy and divisive. I do have to say though: anyone who does a bit of research first can probably max out a WoW toon in a month or less. Blizzard has really made the leveling grind much less than it used to be. Perhaps EQ2 has to move in that direction? This is one of the reasons that I’ve grown to really appreciate skill-based games. The leveling mechanic is clumsy and divisive.

I do have to say though: anyone who does a bit of research first can probably max out a WoW toon in a month or less. Blizzard has really made the leveling grind much less than it used to be. Perhaps EQ2 has to move in that direction?

]]> By: Anjin http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-288821 Anjin Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:27:57 +0000 http://www.journeyswithjaye.com/?p=1459#comment-288821 While once again we're on opposite sides of the coin, I completely agree with you. The current options to allow friends to play together across level boundaries are inadequate. I'd like to point out that Guild Wars launched with the idea that you could start with a level capped character to participate in the endgame content. That was PvP in the case of Guild Wars, but the idea is applicable. Current MMOs are too tied to the fallback RPG mechanics to see your point. But if developers want their games to be all things to all people, they need to step up and embrace their group and guild players. As long as there are still games for <i>me</i> to level up in, that is. :) While once again we’re on opposite sides of the coin, I completely agree with you. The current options to allow friends to play together across level boundaries are inadequate. I’d like to point out that Guild Wars launched with the idea that you could start with a level capped character to participate in the endgame content. That was PvP in the case of Guild Wars, but the idea is applicable. Current MMOs are too tied to the fallback RPG mechanics to see your point. But if developers want their games to be all things to all people, they need to step up and embrace their group and guild players.

As long as there are still games for me to level up in, that is. :)

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